Snag re sale of car without Roadworthy Certificate for scrap

Sav

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Hi Guys - I bought a 2002 Merc ML270 D last year in June for R34 500. After various repairs (brakes, turbo, fuel injectors) totaling around R30 000, it developed an electrical problem and stopped running. After a month or two in the shop (they got it running and then it died again), it went to a specialist. He estimates repairs to be another R30 000. No specific list, though. This sounds too high, and I've looked at selling it. He has offered to sell it to someone for R17 000, who wants it for spares. Here's the snag: It's not possible to sell it without the licence, which isn't possible without the roadworthy, (due end Jan 2022) which is beyond my wallet.

Any advice, recommendations, opinions, please?
 
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fig

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Why is it not possible to sell it without the licence? It's illegal to sell a car without papers, but there's nothing stopping anyone from doing this, and it happens every day. And I've never heard of anyone being given the R1,000 fine listed as the penalty.

You don't need a roadworthy to register a car or to keep the licence up to date. Without a RWC you won't get a disc. By law, all vehicles must be registered and annual licence paid, regardless whether they have a RWC. If you're selling as parts/scrap then there's no need for a RWC.

If the car is not yet in your name, then there is nothing to lose by selling it as is and making the paperwork the buyer's problem. For R17k I doubt the papers are an issue, though you should declare registration status.

If the car is registered in your name, pay the licence up to date and then scrap it, after which there is no requirement for it to be licenced.
 
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Sav

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Thank you, fig. In the meantime, I took the decision this pm to register it in my name and pay the dreadful penalty of R2990. We were confused last year by the instruction from We Buy Cars that the RWC needs to be submitted to do the change of ownership. (It didn't come with an RWC, and the new one was due in Jan 2022.) Then we found out what the repairs would be to get it running for that RWC. One doesn't buy a new car every day, and usually, the dealer sees to all that anyway. So some ignorance there.

Taking all the existing spend into account, I decided to get the car back this pm and fix it bit by bit, as I am able to. I have now found an auto-electrician around the corner who seems excellent, and hope his price is a whole lot lower.
 

Sav

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Thank you, LHD G. That would seem to have been an option and I regret not asking about it. Maybe I would've saved the penalty, but probably not. I just wanted it sorted, and became impatient. Am really a fish out of water with all this. But thank you both for your posts; I truly appreciate it. Next time I have a query, I'll wait for everyone to come home from work, before taking action.

And so one learns...
 
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Dawie Louw

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Have you had diagnostics done with a Mercedes "Star" system? Usually only available at the stealerships. Without proper diagnosis you are in the hands of the gods with an electrical problem. Not any auto-electrician's cup of tea.
 
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Sav

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Have you had diagnostics done with a Mercedes "Star" system? Usually only available at the stealerships. Without proper diagnosis you are in the hands of the gods with an electrical problem. Not any auto-electrician's cup of tea.
Dawie, thank you for that. I've never heard of the 'Star' system and will need to find out more about that. Very grateful to you.
PS. :) Just saw the 'stealerships'. I will brace myself!
 
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460LeoG

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You only need roadworthy to licence. Not register. Once you get roadworthy you get the licence. Licence not required to sell.
 

Sav

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Hi 460LeoG - it was required by the potential middleman, so it was a good time to part. I couldn't carry on there.
 

LHD G

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He has offered to sell it to someone for R17 000, who wants it for spares. Here's the snag: It's not possible to sell it without the licence, which isn't possible without the roadworthy, (due end Jan 2022) which is beyond my wallet.

I think you been taken for a ride if sold for spares no licence needed , Also did "we buy cars " not supply roadworthy ??? personally I would never buy a car from a dealer without roadworthy and registration , you would of been better off had you just scrapped the car , just keep in mind if the person who bought it does not register in his/her name before the current licence expiry date you will be held responsible for still more outstanding licence fees , the only reason the middleman wants to repair the car for either personal use or for resale , I think you got taken for a ride by the mechanic , we buy cars the whole damn lot
 

Sav

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Yes, I suspect you're right re WeBuyCars. We knew there were still repairs to be done, but there was much that wasn't mentioned on the Dekra list. It was registered in their name when we bought it, but we were confused by the note on the folder that said we'd need a CRW before registering it in our name.

Clearly this was not the case, as I've learned now, after R2990 of penalties. The roadworthy was renewable in January, as I said, by which time the car had stopped running due to an electrical fault it developed. This is what's prevented progress.

Re the mechanic taking me for a ride - fortunately, the intuition kicked in, so I took my car home. I need to emphasise that there was no charge from him though, even though he recharged the battery, which I appreciate, and stored it for about a week. It just did my head in, regarding the catch-22 around the CRW, so will have to see what the next mechanic comes up with.

Thank you for your comments. WeBuyCars did not supply a roadworthy certificate, no.
 

Sav

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Hello to you all - thank you very much for advice given. I have in the meantime learned that WeBuyCars can sell with different rules to motor dealers because they are in actual fact an auction house. Long story short, I've scrapped the car at the Motor Licencing Bureau and sold it today for R10 000 to a scrap merchant. And so we learn.
 

Dawie Louw

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On June 3 you wrote: " . . . I've looked at selling it. He has offered to sell it to someone for R17 000, who wants it for spares."

What has changed? You have now scrapped the vehicle. Why sell it for only R10,000?

Sounds you paid high school fees with this exercise.
 

Sav

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On June 3 you wrote: " . . . I've looked at selling it. He has offered to sell it to someone for R17 000, who wants it for spares."

What has changed? You have now scrapped the vehicle. Why sell it for only R10,000?

Sounds you paid high school fees with this exercise.
At that time, it seemed as though there was no way to get it sold to his contact without the CRW. Which was strange as the car was being sold for spares. After I'd scrapped it, I phoned him up again to find out whether the man was still interested. He wasn't, because he'd in the meantime bought other cars. My husband was averse to putting any more money for repairs into it, which had been my plan, and said to just sell it for whatever.

And as for those high school fees... Yes, I did. More like university fees. Ignorance is expensive. And so are hasty decisions.
 

LHD G

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you should have to it for sale on the forum here first , I am sure you would of got more for it
 

460LeoG

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I've bought loads of bikes from webuycars and one car, some on auction. Put them on my name and took for rwc pass or fail no matter. Rwc not required to change ownership. You can even pay up the licence to keep it up to date and only receive the disc when you get Rwc. Why that middleman "required" it was just his personal choice. Not a requirement of any sale. Sounds like a painful experience...
 

Sav

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you should have to it for sale on the forum here first , I am sure you would of got more for it
It did cross my mind, and I don't know why I didn't. I have sent a message requesting the buyer to cancel the deal.

Whether here or on Gumtree, I know it's worth more. Thank you for your post.
 

Sav

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I've bought loads of bikes from webuycars and one car, some on auction. Put them on my name and took for rwc pass or fail no matter. Rwc not required to change ownership. You can even pay up the licence to keep it up to date and only receive the disc when you get Rwc. Why that middleman "required" it was just his personal choice. Not a requirement of any sale. Sounds like a painful experience...
Note fm WeBuyCars.jpg

Thanks, 460LeoG. If we hadn't had this forbidding note on the inside cover of the WeBuyCars folder, we may have acted differently. Did you ever have anything like this? I'm just interested in the experience of others, and it's valuable to me that you seem to have dealt with them a lot.

Since everyone here has deep experience in the motor trade, (even possibly the legal side), am I in breach of contract cancelling the deal? I heard nothing more after sending a pic of my ID to the proposed buyer at his request after I'd agreed in writing to his offer on a WhatsApp message.
 

460LeoG

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View attachment 13793
Thanks, 460LeoG. If we hadn't had this forbidding note on the inside cover of the WeBuyCars folder, we may have acted differently. Did you ever have anything like this? I'm just interested in the experience of others, and it's valuable to me that you seem to have dealt with them a lot.

Since everyone here has deep experience in the motor trade, (even possibly the legal side), am I in breach of contract cancelling the deal? I heard nothing more after sending a pic of my ID to the proposed buyer at his request after I'd agreed in writing to his offer on a WhatsApp message.
If no money exchanged hands then keep the vehicle and get a better deal. No exchange took place then you are free to cancel. That note is a guideline only applies if you want the vehicle licensed. Can still register without which they obviously dont want to confuse people with too many aspects or possibilities. 95% of the time that is how it works doesnt mean it has to be only that way. If a vehicle is too messed up and you need to fix it, then you dont follow that guideline. You then just register it in your name and start paying licence without receiving the disc until you pass and show roadworthy. I registered the last G I bought in my name that will take years before it pass roadworthy.

Welcome to contact me if you need any help. Oh72fouroh31five45
20220208_090118.jpg
 

Sav

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Thanks again, 460LeoG. I can see now that my SA/German obedience kicked in and I automatically thought that this was the only way to go. Sad. Still, have learned many things. The buyer I contacted has replied and is fine with my decision. He understands. :)

So now I need to put it up for sale on the correct thread here on mb4x4. Thanks for your offer - I will contact you.
 
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